Damn!

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: I don't even know how to respond to all of this! : : Did anyone else perceive strong messages about racism, and to a lesser extent, feminism, violence, and religion in this movie? : Sure. : : The majority of it seemed to be about the current emasculation of the white man due to Christianity and the perpetuation of racists attitudes. : errr... : : Namely the stereotypes that black men are somehow more manly than white men and that they have bigger penises. Many many jokes were made to this effect which went well beyond the realm of bad taste. : What? : : There is even a scene where fellatio between Bethany (Linda Fiorentino) and the 13th apostle (Chris Rock) is implied. : Ok, this could be me being incredibly naive or unobservant, but when did that happen? I don't remember any suggestion that Bethany went down on Rufus. : : It is definitely significant that the angels are without sexual organs or anuses. They are white men castrated by the religion of Christianity, unable to properly express either hetero or even homosexuality. : Except that they aren't per se men at all. : : Jay and Silent Bob are seen to make a ploy to become part of the black gang after the striper scene, which by the way also exemplified a way too prevalent theme in pornography resultant of racist attitudes. : I don't think there's an anti-pornography theme going there at all. Kevin has very openly stated on the board that he's quite pro-pornography. : : Jay and Silent Bob represent the young white men of today, it's idol rockstar/rappers, Korn, Limp Bizkit, and a host of other knock-offs, adorned in their Addidas uniforms, sporting their Christian crucifixes, striving to be assimilated into the particular cult of black ethnicity typified by most rappers with their endless macho posturing, espousement of drug addiction and violence, and of course the inherent racist attitudes which must keep such a cult alive. In their self-loathing they try to become more "black" by weak-minded conformity and the most abject hypocrisy. : How do they represent that? I really don't want to uninterpret art for another person. You certainly have a right to your own take, but I think Jay & Silent Bob are simply intended as a riff on classic film comedy duos, kind of brought up to date. : : When Bartleby (Ben Affleck) is done with his killing spree at the very end, he makes a comment about what a great release it was after thousands of years of repression, and "if they only let us masturbate." This is a very poignant comment upon how things like WWF and socially glorified violence are merely a substitute for eroticism, providing a cheap sexual thrill, and often an outlet for homosexual urges. It was interesting how very few, if any people in the movie theater laughed at that, but they sure thought all those black men with big penises jokes were hilarious. Fucking idiots. : Everyone in my theater laughed at that... and I only counted one black penis joke. : : Almost all of the fools I've seen review it have said it didn't criticize the Catholic Church. They are blind. This film was very Satanic and had many anti Christian messages to it. The beginning dialogue between Loki (Matt Damon) and the nun was quite good. I think that it is very probable that Kevin Smith was familiar with the works of nton LaVey when he wrote this movie. Satan fails to succeed in his rebellion because he is tied to God and Christian dogma. The Satanism of LaVey does succeed because the idea of God is done away with completely, moreover Satan is not actually believed in, but used as a symbol of the individual as opposed to the mass or as representative of the balancing force in nature. Much of the terminology used, the names of the angels especially, showed a significant knowledge of Kabbalistic, mythological, and occult ideas. : Ok, now you're joking, right? : : There is also a feminist message as far as all the comments of Jay nd Silent Bob are concerned. I think this really came out in the end with the appearance of Alanis as the female God and the emphasis upon virgin birth. This I feel was intended to bring to mind the past pagan age wherein the female was exalted because of the mystery surrounding childbirth when the role of the man in the process was not known. : The female deity dates back as far as man's existance. The Mother Earth deity, which would have graduated in some place into paganism. It also graduated into Judaism, which originally used the female adjective to describe God. : : Jay's pussy licking joke at the end was typical of the type of stereotyping of all women as having lesbian tendencies, women are just very different emotionally as well as in other ways and they are not all lesbians. : err... Maybe. : : Am I close on any of this Kevin? : Somehow I doubt that any of this is "right", although I can certainly accept your ability to take it as your personal interpretation of the events. None of it rings with the sound of the kinds of ideas and interpretations that Kevin has offered for the world or his films.

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