Posted by Nightbreed at ns.west.com on November 16, 1999 at 19:38:27:
In Reply to: posted by Zos on November 16, 1999 at 18:18:04:
At the risk of slurring the good name of View Askew by associating it with the idulgent ignorance from the previous post, I should point out that the author of said movie must have seen a completely different film than I. He would suggest that the film propogates a belief that the xtianity emasculates white males. This is a farce, as xtianity itself was propelled by white males, and was used as a tool to push out their anglo-centric ideals.
The penis joke to which you refer made absolutely no white/black comparison at all, and I could see how an insecure white male might see it as such, but Rufus simply said that his penis was usually longer, but it was a bit chilly out. Now, I don't know about you, but I don't remember shrinkage being a racial issue.
Then there is the issue of the Angel's reporductive organs and body cavities. This is a joke right? Anyone who is familar with xtian lore should know that Angels have no need for sexual organs since they cannot reproduce sexually. Angels are created by God, and would have no need for such superfluous anatomy. One might also surmise that since they have no need to eat, their body does not process food as the way man's does, and therefore they don't poop. No poop, no anus. Simple as that. Which brings me to a minor flaw I discovered. Azrael has a navel. Smith is gonna hate me if he reads that (and it was the Imperial NAVY, not the Imperial Army, since I'm losing grace points anyway).
Then the author presumes to tell us that every yong white man in America strives to be black (wow, complete role-reversal from the message in Chasing Amy, huh?) by wearing certain clothes, or listening to certain music. Perhaps he expects that American youths should have more "white" role models such as Elvis (oh wait, no, he was real big into blues, and that's "black" music.) Well, how about the Beatles... no wait.. no they were influenced by Elvis who in turn... hmmm. there seems to be a pattern here. Well, there's always Lawrence Welk.
Then there's the masturbation joke. The point Smith was trying to make is that masturbation relives stress, simple enough. I know I feel pretty sedate after twisting one off. You're willingness to tie everything to a homosexual urge makes me wonder if there isn't some kind of latency in your own life.
Then, "Satan fails to succeed in his rebellion because he is tied to God and Christian dogma." I don't seem to remember Satan being IN this movie. You must be confusing Azrael with Lucifer, in which case your lack of understanding of the xtian mythos surrounding this story leaves you at a handicap. From what I gathered from the movie, Azrael was punished for not fighting in the war for heaven. He was sent to hell for his lack of involvement, and was using Bartleby and Loki to extract revenge on God, because to prove God wrong negates existence, and non-existence was better than existing in torment, and that was a risk that Satan himself would not have undertook.
You label these stories as "Kabbalistic." If I'm not mistaken, much of the information in the movie did come from Gnostic stories, but just because you can't find these stories in your King James version doesn't make them any less valid.
And lastly, you suggest that the portrayal of God by Alanis Morissette is a feminist message, when the true message of Smith's movie was that God has no definite shape or form. Is neither male nor female. Rufus told Bethany this on his way up the steps of the chruch.
I think that the author of the previous post is looking for conspiracies and hidden meanings in a movie where the message is obvious, and presented in a clear and consise manner. Dogma is Smith's exploration into his own faith, and he simply points out that the fallacies of the Church, and Church doctorine are because they are created by man, and man is imperfect, but that should not deter one from following his or her faith or beliefs. Dogma is an attempt to prove that logic and faith can play well together, and one need not suffer to fill the requirements of the other.