Posted by OU1313 at w2019.west-green.ohiou.edu on November 17, 1999 at 22:07:57:
In Reply to: "Dogma" - racism, feminism, violence, & religion posted by Zos on November 16, 1999 at 18:18:04:
: First off I hope that you didn't lose any sleep over all of these crazy and inane notions you have floating around in your head. I would be the last person to ever say that Dogma is just a movie because I love Kevins work, but in my appreciation for his films I have learned that much of what
he puts forth is to be taken with a sense of humor. Something your are sorely lacking.
Dogma, of course, was meant to carry a message, but if any thing it was that of reaffiming ones faith not disinegrating it as you seem to believe. Serendipity "I have issue with people who don't celebrate their faith, you people mourn it." Kevin consistently shows how devout he is in his idea (not belief) of worship, even by Bartelby sincere desire to go home, because he knows God's love and only goes on his killing spree because he is so offended by humans lack there of.
Next thing: where are all of these "black men have larger penises" jokes you are refering to. The only joke I can think of ("its usually long rufus") has nothing to do with being a black man but simply a man, please enlighten me if I missed something. And the "implied fellatio" - well your just plain sick. Bethany was simply stretching, your came to that wacked out conclusion on your own pornographic terms.
Question - are you gay? Not that there is anything wrong with that but honestly you sound like one of those "Im an Atheist because religion doesn't accept my being gay" kind of people. I mean c'mon having faith castrates a man - puh leez. If your note weilding criticism had paid more attention to detail Serendipity was organless too. On top of which did you ever stop to think that they didn't express interest in the opposite sex because they knew the ultimate love of God thereby deeming human love unnecessary as well as unimaginable seeing as how they would have a great deal to explain to their partner? Besides Rufus does give a rather interested look to a girl on the train.
Your comment on the whole WWF thing - granted I am not much of a fan, but really an outlet for expressing homosexual urges? I would say its more of an outlet for making a damn big sum of money.They are all actors, paid to do a job, which entails making little kids and stupid adults fall into a money making pit. It's like a soap opera more than anything else, but if you want to see it as some big gay orgy than please keep those kind of comments and bar of soap to yourself. By the way, shooting a load has been proven in medical research to ease stress and release tension in males and I think that is what Loki's (not Bartleby's) comment was directed at - a joke about sexual frustration and what happens if you don't get laid. And if the people in your audience didn't laugh at that joke then I don't know what planet you're from because everyone got a good laugh from it in good ole Ohio.
Now on to the fact that you thought this movie was Satanic - did you take you medicine the day you wrote this? Are you on drugs? God won out and evil (meaning Azrael at least because Bartelby and Loki's fates aren't for certain) was punished. Kevin is in no way shape or form telling any one to be a devil worshipper or an Atheist. Serendipity even states that she has issues with people who don't celebrate their faith and especially Catholics because they mourn it - thereby stating that Catholicism is fine but all you really need is the faith not a mandate ( some abesentee parent who shakes a finger at you from thousands of years ago and says "do it and I'll fucking spank you"). I found it rather hilarious that the part of they movie you claimed to have enjoyed (dialogue about "Through the Looking Glass") was really the only thing about the entire film that could be construed as an Aetheist remark. So if we're the "fucking idiots" you deemed us then you're a fucking hypocrit.
I'm not even balck but as a human period I am still offended by your idiotic diatribe on who Jay and Silent Bob are suppossed to represent. Have you ever even seen any of Kevin's other movies or are you just some doof who wondered in here and thought he would try to sound educated by BADDLY anylizing the shit out of a great work of art. Jay and Bob aren't knock offs or wannabe's of any pop culture image, they are simply them and to say that they purposely tried to become a part of the game makes you sound as intelligent as Dopey the Dwarf on crack. They were talking hanging out and in the original script it was Serendipity who gave them the idea to become friends after a fight, so until you do your home work and lose some racist attitudes of your own keep your mouth shut. And yes racist attitudes because it is rather juvenille to say that only black men have drug problems cause violence and rap. Eminem, Beastie Boys,Kid Rock, Jon B.,John Durst, they are all white rappers. And violence well KKK, Hitler, Manson, Bundy, Dahmer - I mean are you stupid or just naive. Your arguments are meritless.
Finally to wrap this up, I believe you have thought way too much about this and as intelligent as I think Kev is and as much as I love his work, I think you are giving him way too much credit as well as insulting him at the same time. To think up all of theses FAR FETCHED attempts at inference would be a job for Aesop, and its an insult to think Kev would have these brainless ideas, but I don't know him myself so I'll hold my tongue on any further comment there. The beauty of his work lies in its simplicity, the knowledge that his audience doesn't want head games they want to laugh and they want to be enlightened, but not to the point of complete brain fry. Please go back see the movie again and leave all of your weird ass ideas at home, you will enjoy the movie a lot more.