Posted by Bethany27 at 154.11.255.98 on November 30, 1999 at 16:39:27:
In Reply to: Are wingless angels truly all-the-way human??? posted by Placenta Jones on November 30, 1999 at 12:34:28:
: Jeez...thirteen years of Catholic school and I can't even answer this basic question.
Don't beat yourself up! This movie really made me think too...
: From what I understand (which way be wrong), when Jesus died, his sacrifice made it possible for all humans to enter heaven. To go to heaven, you only only had to accept Jesus as your savior and ask forgiveness for your sins (I'm hazy on whether you had to peform the sacrament of confession or if personal prayer would suffice.)
Well... I'm no expert but I do know this: In the protestant religion, personal prayer suffices. In the Baptist religion specifically, I think immersion in holy waters as an adult (or of your own free will, as in not as a baby) is also a "requirement"... but in general, personal prayer/acceptance of Jesus/confession to God of sins is it!
: SO, here's the questions... After cutting off their wings, do Bartelby and Loki become normal, original sin tainted human beings? Does God's decree about keeping the two of them out of heaven still apply once they become human? If it doesn't, why didn't B&L think of this a LONG time ago?
I was wondering the same thing... surely the "repent and forgiveness" thing couldn't have just occurred to them. I think the answer is that they didn't WANT to repent. You have to "mean it" when you repent your sins. God is (from my years at Sunday School!) all knowing, and just saying "I'm sorry now let me in" won't cut it! It has to be in your heart, like Ben's was at the very end. This gate was a loophole that enabled them to return to God's kindgom without admitting that refusing to kill in his name was wrong.
: Also, where does Purgatory come into this?
Oh boy. I thank my parents for making me protestant so I don't have to wrack my brain over that one.... but saying that Wisconsin was their purgatory (holding pen until the end times at which time they'd sit outside the gates) makes sense to me!
: And, my final thought, if Bartelby and Loki were banished to Wisconsin, why was it so easy for them to leave it?
No idea. None. Kev?
: Cripes, I don't know...maybe we're looking to deep into this...damn good question, Bethany. Oh, and hey, you can find an early version of the Dogma script online at www.script-o-rama.com.
Thanks for the script! I'm printing it out right now... trying to be subtle about it (at work)... 204 pages! Eesh. faster, little printer... faster...
xo