My answer...

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Posted by Darth Dobbin at 12.19.232.3 on November 09, 2000 at 15:34:34:

In Reply to: I just have one question posted by MK on November 09, 2000 at 15:21:54:

: YOu made some valid points as did turtle; MY question is: How can you call her stupid when all she is doing is stating her opinion.

Yes. I find her opinion to be stupid. Having the right to an opinion is one thing. The merits of that opinion are another.

Is it me or are the "liberals" just so much louder than everyone else.

I'm "liberal" if liberal means jealously guarding of my freedoms. I think the Bill of Rights is the finest document ever crafted by any government. Even the second amendment, which I have some problems with, I agree with in principal. I am NOT "liberal", as you probably mean it, when it comes to crime and punishment, or the Death Penalty (in theory).

I assume the Rep. you speak of was McCain, no? I too campaigned for him.

Yes, it was. And if he could unite people with such wildly disparate viewpoints such as you and me, and if the Republicans SAW that during the primaries, we would not be in this mess; he would have won in a landslide, specifically because of "liberals" like me who have the utmost respect for his integrity, character, patriotsm and honesty.

Since I find BOTH Gore AND Bush lacking all these values, I voted for Gore becuase he would support more policies I agree with (chief among them finance reform, even though his finace efforts were questionable, the end result would be reform of some kind), and be less likely to limit my 1st, 4th, and 9th amendment rights.

But enough of this. Let's try to guess the title of VA5, shall we?

: : this is, in theory, a forum to discuss Jay and Silent Bob and Banky hats, and whatnot, but these are extraordinary times, and I hope the "off-topic" nature of these posts does not offend.

: : That said, allow me to retort.

: : : I didn't vote for Gore because he stands for just about everything I despise.

: : Here's a wake-up call, Turtle. Either Bush or Gore WILL be president.

: : Make a hard, pragmatic decision based on that fact. Check out http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2000/resources/where.they.stand/ and figure out who stands for MORE of what you despise, and vote for the other guy. And if the choices are so terrible, then be more involved in the primary race. If you were not involved, and did not push for a candidate THERE, then shut up about the abysmal choices. Hell, shut up about them, anyway. I had a candidate in the primaries that I did work for, and tried to raise support and consciousness for---and he was a REPUBLICAN, of all things. He did not win. I dislike Gore. But without my candidate of choice in the race, then I was forced to pick who, OF THE VIABLE CANDIDATES, would best serve my nation. I would hope others would do the same. It is your right to NOT do so, but it is equally my right to express anger, frustration, and bile towards you, and your well-intended, but disastrous efforts.

: : He's for hire just as much as Bush is, only he won't admit it to our faces.

: : OK. Bush ADMITS he's for hire. Your brand of sound-bite politics frightens me with its lack of reason.

: : : If Gore loses this election he's got no one to blame but himself. He catered to the right wing as much as he could, and simply took the left for granted.

: : Yes. The interests of the left will be much better served under a Bush administration. Your pie in the sky idealism falls apart with the brass tacks question of "who will be president."

: : Did he really think he'd have our vote with a platform that emphasized a bigger military budget than Bush?

: :
: : You are a fool, and in my opinion, more of a danger and a hazard to our nation than the radical right. I would wager that the majority of my views would tend to classify me as a frothing, irredeemable liberal... But I understand implicitly that I am allowed those viewpoints and that continued freedom due to the selfless sacrifice of those patriotic men and women who SERVE OUR COUNTRY. No one got rich entering into a career in the military. How dare you equate keeping our national defense strong, current, and viable, and compensating those who man that defense, as being "right wing?"

: : You're a loon.

: :
: : Or by supporting the utterly mindless war on drugs,

: : I agree with you there. But in a "greater than/less than" contest with Bush, and on other battleground issues, Gore wins, in my opinion, every time.

: : or by renegging on just about every environmental promise he's ever made?

: : HE WAS VICE PRESIDENT. Vice presidents don't do too much besides break ties in the house.

: : Gore simply didn't deserve my vote, it's as simple as that. And if Bush gets elected, then it's his own damn fault.

: : So folks like you, punishishing Gore for not being as left of center as you would like him to be, would RATHER have a completely right wing president? I don't want my country to suffer the punishment for this imagined transgression.

: : : I'm surprised at you Dobbin. I took you for someone who stood up for what he believed, instead of caving into the blandness of the middle.

: : I believe in my country; I believe in the principles of freedom and equality that men like Jefferson and Paine and Washington fought for, and that countless brave, and frightened soliders throughout the years have fought and died to protecy. I belive in America's continued success and prosperity. I believe that it is the finest, most free, and most noble of any nation ever created; it has its flaws, and injustices, I freely grabt. But the revolutionary, enlightened aspect of changability our Constitution has woven into itself, to allow for that injustice that men are prone to.

: : I believe in pragmatism over blind idealism when my country is on the line. What you are saying is this-- You are driving a car, and the wheel, when you turn it right, causes the car to shift to the left.. On your left, there is a cliff-embankment that is filled with sharp rocks. But you choose to yank the wheel to the RIGHT, since it is **supposed** to work that way.

: : You are a fool, and a strident fool.

: : But it is your right to be one, and to state your foolish viewpoints.

:
: :
: : : -turtle
: : : really still just horrified that nearly half of this country thinks that Bush is the guy they want making decisions for them.

Follow Ups:

Something you need to realize.... thx3188 18:36:20 11/09/00 (0)
Never forget. Your point of view ... Johnny Thunders 16:30:15 11/09/00 (0)

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: : YOu made some valid points as did turtle; MY question is: How can you call her stupid when all she is doing is stating her opinion. : Yes. I find her opinion to be stupid. Having the right to an opinion is one thing. The merits of that opinion are another. : Is it me or are the "liberals" just so much louder than everyone else. : I'm "liberal" if liberal means jealously guarding of my freedoms. I think the Bill of Rights is the finest document ever crafted by any government. Even the second amendment, which I have some problems with, I agree with in principal. I am NOT "liberal", as you probably mean it, when it comes to crime and punishment, or the Death Penalty (in theory). : I assume the Rep. you speak of was McCain, no? I too campaigned for him. : Yes, it was. And if he could unite people with such wildly disparate viewpoints such as you and me, and if the Republicans SAW that during the primaries, we would not be in this mess; he would have won in a landslide, specifically because of "liberals" like me who have the utmost respect for his integrity, character, patriotsm and honesty. : Since I find BOTH Gore AND Bush lacking all these values, I voted for Gore becuase he would support more policies I agree with (chief among them finance reform, even though his finace efforts were questionable, the end result would be reform of some kind), and be less likely to limit my 1st, 4th, and 9th amendment rights. : But enough of this. Let's try to guess the title of VA5, shall we? : : : this is, in theory, a forum to discuss Jay and Silent Bob and Banky hats, and whatnot, but these are extraordinary times, and I hope the "off-topic" nature of these posts does not offend. : : : That said, allow me to retort. : : : : I didn't vote for Gore because he stands for just about everything I despise. : : : Here's a wake-up call, Turtle. Either Bush or Gore WILL be president. : : : Make a hard, pragmatic decision based on that fact. Check out http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2000/resources/where.they.stand/ and figure out who stands for MORE of what you despise, and vote for the other guy. And if the choices are so terrible, then be more involved in the primary race. If you were not involved, and did not push for a candidate THERE, then shut up about the abysmal choices. Hell, shut up about them, anyway. I had a candidate in the primaries that I did work for, and tried to raise support and consciousness for---and he was a REPUBLICAN, of all things. He did not win. I dislike Gore. But without my candidate of choice in the race, then I was forced to pick who, OF THE VIABLE CANDIDATES, would best serve my nation. I would hope others would do the same. It is your right to NOT do so, but it is equally my right to express anger, frustration, and bile towards you, and your well-intended, but disastrous efforts. : : : He's for hire just as much as Bush is, only he won't admit it to our faces. : : : OK. Bush ADMITS he's for hire. Your brand of sound-bite politics frightens me with its lack of reason. : : : : : If Gore loses this election he's got no one to blame but himself. He catered to the right wing as much as he could, and simply took the left for granted. : : : Yes. The interests of the left will be much better served under a Bush administration. Your pie in the sky idealism falls apart with the brass tacks question of "who will be president." : : : Did he really think he'd have our vote with a platform that emphasized a bigger military budget than Bush? : : : : : : You are a fool, and in my opinion, more of a danger and a hazard to our nation than the radical right. I would wager that the majority of my views would tend to classify me as a frothing, irredeemable liberal... But I understand implicitly that I am allowed those viewpoints and that continued freedom due to the selfless sacrifice of those patriotic men and women who SERVE OUR COUNTRY. No one got rich entering into a career in the military. How dare you equate keeping our national defense strong, current, and viable, and compensating those who man that defense, as being "right wing?" : : : You're a loon. : : : : : : Or by supporting the utterly mindless war on drugs, : : : I agree with you there. But in a "greater than/less than" contest with Bush, and on other battleground issues, Gore wins, in my opinion, every time. : : : or by renegging on just about every environmental promise he's ever made? : : : HE WAS VICE PRESIDENT. Vice presidents don't do too much besides break ties in the house. : : : Gore simply didn't deserve my vote, it's as simple as that. And if Bush gets elected, then it's his own damn fault. : : : So folks like you, punishishing Gore for not being as left of center as you would like him to be, would RATHER have a completely right wing president? I don't want my country to suffer the punishment for this imagined transgression. : : : : I'm surprised at you Dobbin. I took you for someone who stood up for what he believed, instead of caving into the blandness of the middle. : : : I believe in my country; I believe in the principles of freedom and equality that men like Jefferson and Paine and Washington fought for, and that countless brave, and frightened soliders throughout the years have fought and died to protecy. I belive in America's continued success and prosperity. I believe that it is the finest, most free, and most noble of any nation ever created; it has its flaws, and injustices, I freely grabt. But the revolutionary, enlightened aspect of changability our Constitution has woven into itself, to allow for that injustice that men are prone to. : : : I believe in pragmatism over blind idealism when my country is on the line. What you are saying is this-- You are driving a car, and the wheel, when you turn it right, causes the car to shift to the left.. On your left, there is a cliff-embankment that is filled with sharp rocks. But you choose to yank the wheel to the RIGHT, since it is **supposed** to work that way. : : : You are a fool, and a strident fool. : : : But it is your right to be one, and to state your foolish viewpoints. : : : : : : : : : -turtle : : : : really still just horrified that nearly half of this country thinks that Bush is the guy they want making decisions for them.

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