Posted by Smalls at syru169-214.syr.edu on March 29, 2001 at 05:07:04:
In Reply to: IT WAS THE POINT OF THE FRIGGIN FLICK! posted by Bob, the Lord of Evil on March 29, 2001 at 02:35:26:
: Okay, here's a more literal example- what if Indiana Jones never found the grail. But it's okay, cause he's a cool character right? But the whole movie you want him to get the grail and then he doesn't-that sucks.
But goddamn, man, if I see him in another film, I wanna see Indy on a madcap search for something else. Atlantis or something. The fun of him is the chase, not the finding. The finding the thing... that's already appearent.
: As I see it, Dante was gonna clean up his act at the end of Clerks. To me, the point was he was gonna stop bitching about it and move on. Or stop bitching about it and deal better. or something. Anything. Grow. A little.
Happy endings aren't interesting. I saw the point of the ending as: hey, this guy might end up living like that for the rest of his life... except the rest of it won't be as wacky or exciting. I was pulling for him, yeah, but the idea that he's just too fucked to grow is interesting too.
Because it's more like real people.
: You're saying a.)he doesn't need to, and b.) he shouldn't. I'm sorry, fuck that. Potential new fans be damned. Smith, I believe, is talented enough to make Dante interesting without him whining about working in the Quick Stop. Surely, you must agree with that. You can't be that stubborn and defensive.
Kevin can do whatever he wants with his characters, man, and he's proved he can do it well. Buuuuut... if Kevin wants a character who does non-Dante things, he can make up another character and name him TS or Banky or something like that. A character... even a character in a series... is not just the same actor with the same character name playing a wholly different set of traits.
Dante is a whiny bitch with a warped sense of responsibility that holds him down. Randal is a lazy fucker who hides his frustration with his own laziness via bullshit posturing. Even if the cards are coming up their way, they had better be figuring out ways to undermine themselves with those traits. Those are the vital essences of the characters, man.
Or else you could just write new characters.
: And if Kevin had Dante start dating Aimee Mann and become a hit movie director you'd be cheering his choice along louder than any of us. SO don't pass me this garbled nonsense.
Actually, if Kevin wrote it funny, I'd love it, yeah... but I think I would be a little disappointed if the character did a personality 180... the character would be "entertaining character played by OHalloran"... but not Dante.
: And as for thinking way too hard about it, I think way too hard about everything. Except for these posts. Those, I just kinda throw up words. Otherwise, I'm a think-think-thinking man, and for most of the people on this board, I'm sure that you'd all say it's wasted as I am incapable of having a coherent thought and whatnot.
Nah. I'd just say... at least in this particular case... I'd simply say that you and I have very different outlooks on character and character development. Your ragging on Marilyn was a waste and incoherent, this is just perhaps a sign that your analysis of stories is way the hell too plot oriented and you haven't thought about the relationship between character likability and character continuity...
The reason we like a character is who they are and how they react to situations, not what happens to them.
Ya dig?
Smalls