It really is a non-issue...

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Posted by Pseudo at on August 07, 2001 at 18:44:32:

In Reply to: Burton, POTA and Jay & Silent Bob non-issue posted by Neil on August 07, 2001 at 18:20:41:

Thanks in part to the "fans" of Kevin Smith who come on here to intelligently voice their displeasure with Tim Burton. Ranging from him sucking cock to him being a hack. Insight, if I ever saw it.

I'd venture to guess a good majority of these guttersnipes WERE fans of Burton, who were merely disgruntled with the fact that Planet of the Apes was sub-par. And when they found out about this "scandal", they became agog...rushing to get on here and "back Kevin up". Some sort of an outlet for them to vent.

: Tim Burton is a very, very talented man. He has made a movie, ED WOOD, that qualifies easily for my Top 10 movies and a handful of others that wouldn't be troubled to make it into the Top 100. He's in a bit of a slump, I admit. SLEEPY HOLLOW has a nice mood, but just never quite gets anywhere and his PLANET OF THE APES just flat-out sucks.

He's a top bones about it. The man has an opinion, too.

His quarrels with Kevin over the Superman 5 thing is really none of our business. We don't know everything that went down. Many of us just assume. Burton, of course, being the villain. Which he just might be, in this case.

: Kevin Smith is a very, very talented man with a much different kind of talent. He has a movie, CHASING AMY, that probably slides into my Top 10. As far as I know, he's not in a slump. I enjoyed DOGMA, I'm enjoying his "Green Arrow" series, and I am anticipating enjoying JAY & SILENT BOB STRIKE BACK, but even if I don't, one bad game does not a slump make.

Kevin's great, but he can't even be compared to Burton as a director, for his movies are completely on the other side of the spectrum, in style and genre.

: Both have their own struggles. Burton is weak at developing screenplays that don't hold back his creativity and work against the film. Both Batman films, SLEEPY HOLLOW and POTA all suffer from major script problems. Smith suffers in the opposite manner. He often sacrifices vision for idle chat, realism for an easy chuckle and kinesis for a kind of naturalism.

Valid points.

: Reasonable men can disagree on the above points, I understand.

: I seriously doubt that Tim Burton thought of the ending to his POTA remake. The basic gist of it is simply taken directly from Pierre Boulle's "Monkey Planet" and the other part – the specific aspect that the little non-controversy going on here is in regards to – is kind of obvious as a way to reference the ending of the Franklin Schaeffner film without using the same detail. That said, it was probably conceived by William Broyles Jr., Lawrence Konner or Mark D. Rosenthal, since they are the credited writers.

Exactly. This all can't be pinned on Burton alone. Not to mention, they shot quite a few endings, but obviously, ended up using only one.

: I'd go dollars to donuts that it was on the table even before Burton was involved.'s a reasonable argument. Like I've said, it didn' a totally-Burton film, if that makes sense.

: But it is a fun coincidence. Those who laughed over it and moved on were totally justified. Kevin making a joke about it here and even playing on it, that makes a lot of sense, too. Who wouldn't do that?

Well, a great many thought he was serious, and that's where we got the "yeah kev sue the fuckin bastard!!!!!!!!!!", "burton is a no talent hack man, u should sue his fukin ass!!!11!" comments.

: So, is Burton's comment wrong somehow? I don't know. To be honest, we don't know how he was asked about the matter. If someone paraphrased Kevin's comments without irony, then I'd think he'd reasonably be miffed and his comments would then be justified without explanation. Maybe he intended an irony that wasn't perceived.

I doubt this Superman things still gnaws at Burton. If he doesn't like Kevin's work, he doesn't like Kevin's work. He can't be the only director who doesn't. Just because he's in the business, it doesn't mean his comments have to be dissected and put under a microscope by us lowly fans.

: And then, even if he was just being contentious, well, I think most of us here have – rightly – defended Kevin's right to be a little bit contentious at times. It would be more than a little hypocritical of us to use a completely different set of standards to judge another filmmaker's comments.

It's rare to see intelligent analysis of Burton's comments on this board, though. We have brand new people from out of nowhere coming on here and saying he's a mediocre hack! A mediocre hack. Burton? Ha...just, ha...

: So, all I'm saying is… Have at! Man, I'd love to see this board covered top to bottom with juvenile insults of Burton and his mother and the color of his nut sac. Go crazy! It's been a good two days since the last round of hysterics. What would we be without a knee-jerk reaction to a bogus perception of attack to unite us in outrage?

As long as this board is up and running, parents will have their 12 year-old son climb up onto the computer chair, cracking their fingers as they type for the first time.

Unfortunately, many choose to type here.

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