Posted by Neil at 188.8.131.52 on August 07, 2001 at 19:23:59:
In Reply to: It really is a non-issue... posted by Pseudo on August 07, 2001 at 18:44:32:
: Thanks in part to the "fans" of Kevin Smith who come on here to intelligently voice their displeasure with Tim Burton. Ranging from him sucking cock to him being a hack. Insight, if I ever saw it.
Oh, indeed. Magically delicious.
: I'd venture to guess a good majority of these guttersnipes WERE fans of Burton, who were merely disgruntled with the fact that Planet of the Apes was sub-par. And when they found out about this "scandal", they became agog...rushing to get on here and "back Kevin up". Some sort of an outlet for them to vent.
Completely. Even when Kevin just jokes about a "controversy" the warriors arm themselves to stand at his side with insults aplenty.
: His quarrels with Kevin over the Superman 5 thing is really none of our business. We don't know everything that went down. Many of us just assume. Burton, of course, being the villain. Which he just might be, in this case.
And I can see. We've read the screenplay and enjoyed it. We know that many of the lesser elements were dictated from Jon Peters, so we imagine this even better draft out there… and I include myself in that.
However, it is possible for two people to have a disagreement and even a degree of bitterness over an issue and both have a level of truth on their side.
I suspect Burton had a lot of pressure on him to really bring some far-out ideas to play and make it really Burton-y, and every nearly idea he brainstormed in an effort to do that was reported and added together into one big stew instead of separate ideas some of which connected and some of which didn't.
But then I don't know. Even if Burton had a lot of really stupid ideas for a Superman movie, he was hired by someone to bring his ideas to it, so even that isn't exactly wrong.
: : But it is a fun coincidence. Those who laughed over it and moved on were totally justified. Kevin making a joke about it here and even playing on it, that makes a lot of sense, too. Who wouldn't do that?
: Well, a great many thought he was serious, and that's where we got the "yeah kev sue the fuckin bastard!!!!!!!!!!", "burton is a no talent hack man, u should sue his fukin ass!!!11!" comments.
Sure, it was a dry, deadpan joke. Not getting it at first was reasonable, if those specific reactions were not. Now that he's explicitly on record as joking, well, it's just insane.
: : So, is Burton's comment wrong somehow? I don't know. To be honest, we don't know how he was asked about the matter. If someone paraphrased Kevin's comments without irony, then I'd think he'd reasonably be miffed and his comments would then be justified without explanation. Maybe he intended an irony that wasn't perceived.
: I doubt this Superman things still gnaws at Burton. If he doesn't like Kevin's work, he doesn't like Kevin's work. He can't be the only director who doesn't. Just because he's in the business, it doesn't mean his comments have to be dissected and put under a microscope by us lowly fans.
I have no idea how or if the Superman fiasco – and it was ultimately a fiasco for everyone – plays into Burton's feelings about Kevin and his work. It wouldn't be entirely unreasonable if he did… something like Kevin's bitterness about Reese Witherspoon coloring his opinion of her.
One way or the other, if someone called him and said, "Kevin Smith says you ripped off his comic for the ending of your POTA and he's going to sue. What do you have to say to that?" then it would be entirely reasonable that he'd be shocked, irked and made a pointless dig out of the emotion of the moment.
Or maybe he just doesn't dig Kevin's stuff. There's no law that says he has to.
: : And then, even if he was just being contentious, well, I think most of us here have – rightly – defended Kevin's right to be a little bit contentious at times. It would be more than a little hypocritical of us to use a completely different set of standards to judge another filmmaker's comments.
: It's rare to see intelligent analysis of Burton's comments on this board, though. We have brand new people from out of nowhere coming on here and saying he's a mediocre hack! A mediocre hack. Burton? Ha...just, ha...
Well, I agree.
But those of us who are willing and able to discuss what he said reasonably, understand that his work at large is very rarely on-topic.
: : So, all I'm saying is… Have at! Man, I'd love to see this board covered top to bottom with juvenile insults of Burton and his mother and the color of his nut sac. Go crazy! It's been a good two days since the last round of hysterics. What would we be without a knee-jerk reaction to a bogus perception of attack to unite us in outrage?
: As long as this board is up and running, parents will have their 12 year-old son climb up onto the computer chair, cracking their fingers as they type for the first time.
: Unfortunately, many choose to type here.
Yes, indeed. It's a fun, fun madhouse!
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