Posted by TheMojoPin at 1cust197.tnt4.manassas.va.da.uu.net on August 08, 2001 at 17:21:42:
In Reply to: Clarification and more... posted by Neil on August 08, 2001 at 17:08:44:
: : : The thing I'm having trouble with, however, is I never actually saw him comment on the film or really on Burton. The similarity between the comic panel and the ending of Burton's POTA was an amusing coincidence and worthy of comment. Kevin chose – however wisely or unwisely it was – to comment on this by making a deadpan joke about legal action. I understood it as a joke, as did any number of others, however many people missed the joke and either thought he was being a bit ridiculous or leapt into outrage over the injustice done to their Fearless Leader.
: : Some surely did just fall in line and bashed Burton because it seemed like Kevin said so, but can't some people also have opinions?
: Yes, but I despise Renny Harlin. Man, does that guy's movies suck! Could I probably come up with some way to twist that into being on topic? Sure. Do I bother? No.
: So, we all have a million opinions and we selectively choose when we offer them, right?
: What valid, on-topic, non-ass-kissing reason was there to go on a bunch of anti-Burton rants? I haven't had anyone give me one yet, but I'd be very interested in them. I'll concede it fairly if someone does.
: Nevertheless, I wasn't, in this post, referring to people bashing Burton's body of work. I was actually referring to the people who jumped onto Kevin's supposed side after he joked about suing. Apparently I wasn't clear enough.
: : I saw this as a perfect chance to vent the fact that I, a) Was really, REALLY let down by the new PoTA as a whole…
: I agree. I sucked a lot. I hated it more than most.
: I still don't see how it's on-topic.
: : … and b) That I feel Burton, who used to be one of my favorites until "Mars Attacks!", has really slipped when it comes to the lasting quality and substance of his films.
: This seems to be taking it further and further from being on-topic.
: : And yet, it seems like anyone tries to graduate to an opinion above the level of "BURTON SUX AZZ!!!" they're just shot down as being bandwagon-bitches, just jumping on the anti-Burton bus because Kevin said so. Feh, I say, FEH!!! Some of us may just might not be fond of Burton's work for whatever reason, and this is just a chance to express that and hopefully stimulate discussion.
: But there are places for that! Go to the Film-411 board or a movie newsgroup. I'm not suggesting that people should overwhelmingly praise Tim Burton or the whole body of his work. Opinions are valid.
: As I said above, and elsewhere on this board, what I don't see is a reason to discuss one's dislike of Burton in this place at this time except as ass-kissing.
: Could one or two people have just slipped into it because they'd just seen the movie and been pissed? Sure. Do I buy that the vast majority of people were just validly expressing their opinion? Not a fucking chance.
: Basically, if you don't want to be grouped in with knee-jerk More Kevin Than Kevin Zombies, this is probably not the best place to discuss Tim Burton at this time.
: Does that make sense?
It all makes sense, but I'm just one of those knee-jerk persons that can't be contained to a strictly so-called "on-topic" website. I don't want to go to a Burton message board because most of it will just be pro-Burton and I'd probably be accused of flaming just because I didn't like his last three films at all. I look at any thread discussing Burton's last few films as somewhat on-topic because we wouldn't be talking about it if Kevin hadn't jokingly brought up ToPA, and apparently just because HE said it, it's on-topic...that's all, other movies outside of the View Askew-niverse are fair game here, and some of the people here have to be intelligent movie fans, and I want to hear their opinions, to maybe find things I missed or see the film a different way....that's all....so yes, I can see your point, but come on, minds are going to wander, so why not encourage intelligent discussion of someone's movies instead of just grouping those discussions in with the "BURTON L!CK$ N@DZ!!!" posts...but good talkin' wit' ya dere, eh?
-TMP