Posted by David St. Hubbins at 83.westvalleycity-02rh15rt-ut.dial-access.att.net on November 15, 2002 at 01:59:12:
In Reply to: *SPOILERS* posted by Vincent on November 15, 2002 at 00:20:27:
: Is it just me, or was that about the most retarded thing that the so-called "learned" Jedi could ever do? It should have been PLAINLY OBVIOUS that Dooku was double-dealing, that he was trying to get the Jedi to call up the Clones into service, but they didn't figure that out??? That whole plot point was so ridiculous that I lost any "respect" for the Jedi. They are a race of morons.
Well, that was a mistake by the Jedi, but I'm not sure what gave you the idea that the Jedi were perfect to begin with. After all, you saw the original series. The Empire rules the entire universe! Obi Wan's hiding out on Tatooine and Yoda's living in a swamp! Since the very beginning Yoda has admitted that "The dark side clouds everything." If Yoda isn't all knowing, then nobody is! This is PRECISELY why the universe as we know it, in all six Star Wars epics, is in constant turmoil. The Jedi have a long history of fucking things up! Even Qui Gon and Obi Wan's insistence on training Anachin, and Yoda's approval of such training turned out to be a very bad idea. But it also had to do with the prophesy of "the one who brings balance to the force.", which could mean many things. Perhaps the Jedi were pinning desperate hopes on Anachin; that he could bring the good side on equal footing with the dark side. Or perhaps, they were only partially correct, in that he WOULD bring balance, but only in the form of his son, Luke, bringing an end to the powerful emporer and his second, Darth. Who knows? The Jedi always seemed to remind me of one of the "eastern" philosophies here, perhaps the Taoist view of "Yin-Yang". Balance here perhaps meaning that "Evil will always accompany Good". It has always been there in equal proportions, and always will.
Their is plenty of proof in five films now that the Jedi have NEVER been all knowing and all powerful. That hardly makes them ridiculous morons.
: Again, the awful writing and dialogue ruined it for me.
Lucas doesn't seem to have the knack for humor and wit that he had in the original series, I'll CERTAINLY give you that. I mean, Han had such funny lines, and a hell of a lot of personality, and the banter between he and Lea was terrific. Why Lucas is giving these new characters such a "classical" style of dialogue and acting, when the original seems so much more modern and full of humor, is beyond me. Nevertheless, the dialogue was AT LEAST as good in Episode II as it was in I, if not better (the Gungins and the fucking Viceroy. They sounded like they work in a Chinese laundromat, or something).
: : And partially I love it because it's a transitional film, just like "The Empire Strikes Back".
: Except that THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK was really, really good.
Yes. The original series still holds a very special place in my heart that this series can never match, even with it's superior visual and audio effects. I wasn't comparing the two movies. I was saying I like the transitional nature of "Attack" in the same way I liked the transitional nature of "Empire".
: Maybe it's that I wasn't expecting much from EPISODE 1. I wanted to be entertained, and it did that for me (well, except for Jar-Jar and some of the stuff with the kid). ATTACK OF THE CLONES just annoyed the hell out of me.
: Vincent
Well, to each his own. You're points are not surprisingly very intelligent, concise, and for the most part, convincing.
I really just don't agree about the Jedi. You couldn't ever have had a single Star Wars movie if the Jedi had everything under control. Anachin obviously wasn't the first Jedi to go bad (Dooku, Maul), and even Yoda can't see through the powerful "cloud" the dark side casts over the universe. I think the Jedi's imperfections are exactly what keeps the universe in such splendid chaos, but that certainly doesn't make them ridiculous morons. With the possible exception of Palpatine/Emperor, the Jedi shaped this Star Wars universe more than any others.