Posted by Bob301 at dialup-65.58.134.214.dial1.phoenix1.level3.net on April 09, 2003 at 04:15:17:
In Reply to: Kevin posted by homepage.mac.com/guerillafilms on April 09, 2003 at 03:17:29:
: ANSWER: Independent thinker.
I don't believe that you're as independent of a thinker as you think you are. You have merely chosen a side in an argument which has been presented to this board in the past. The fact that you have chosen to say he is insecure seems to be original on the outside, but upon further reading, you actually put forth the opinion that a couple of his films are bad. This just puts you on the same bandwagon some of the mainstream critics are on. You give no reason why the films are bad; I saw no analysis, no points about deficiencies in plot, bad characterization, unrealistic dialogue, visual style, or any of the other many reasons critics find to detract from a movies rating. You just stated an opinion and didn't back it up. Good for you.
:Smith has made a career from challenging unpopular thinking with his outrageous dialogue. Why does he have the right and not me?
He does it in an opt-out forum (you don't have to buy his DVDs, or go to his movies), and tries to play to his audience. If you want to spout off about how bad Kevin is, go to an anti-Kev forum. This board is for people who like things View askew, and like it or not, Kevin IS View Askew.
:Because he has some money? [Note to self: Even if I get one person NOT TO SEE a Kevin Smith film, then I'm making the world a better place (and I've gotten many people I know NOT to see his stupid films... just imagine all the money I'm losing for you guys :)].
Everyone in this country has the right to speak an opinion in a public place. This, however, is only a public forum because Kevin Smith has decided it should be so. he puts up the money to run the site, and allows anyone to register for the board if they want to. If you want a warm welcome on a web board, start your own. Of course, running the board on someone's server probably costs a bit of money, or possibly a loss in creative control, but in America, we get to make our own opportunities. Do what you have to, if you really want something to happen. Kevin did just that with Clerks.
:Do you do anything on this site other than EMOTE.
Emote: To express emotion, especially in an excessive or theatrical manner: “The more she emotes, the less he listens, and the less he listens, the more strident and emotive she becomes”
(dictionary.com) I do not think it means what you think it means. Even if you meant to ask if all we do is speak of emotions, so what. Movies are art, and art is made to speak to emotions. I think emotions are particularly appropriate for a web board about movies, don't you?
:Look, these people (fans like yourself) are ridiculous because all they do it tow the line that Kevin "I can't open a film" Smith is all that he thinks he is.
So you mean 'you people' then. And what does Kevin think he is? Did you ask him? Did he state what he thinks he is in an article you can refer me to? I can refer you to the arena column magazine where he feres to himself as a very lucky man, both for his film career and his love life. I don't think I've read a Kevin Smith quote where he proclaims himself as anything but lucky, and possibly talented. I see no hint of the hubris you seem to think he exhibits (go ahead to dctionary.com for a definition, if it helps).
:A REAL FILM COMMUNITY would entertain REAL debate and dialogue (positive and negative)the benefit of which would improve the quality of films and culture.
Honestly, you don't believe this crap, do oyu? The only time a debate is ever as polite and dignified as you make it out to be is when the parties involved already know the questions and can write the responses before hand. Debate is just another word for argument, and people naturally treat it as such. Be realistic here, man. Further, just because a few fans have a debate about the merits or flaws of a film or film certainly doesn't mean the quality of films or the film community is going to rise. The people who register for a web board to discuss why they like a certain writer, director, or actors films would seem like a good way to get info about what the filmmakers are doing wrong, but people have such varied tastes that anyone who monitors the forum wouldn't know the majority opinion except on very obvious errors, which I'm sure they would catch on to those with little prompting anyway. Don't be naive.
:However, like a bad indie version of the "Emperor's New Clothes" Kevin Smith has intentionally confused lip service with feedback.
I believe people see the movies first, then come here. As such, they have mostly made up their own minds already, and don't need someone to tell them what to think. I don't think anyone comes on this board and asks what he should think of the movies.
:Basically, he only likes art and culture if the outcome favors Kevin.
How do you mean? I don't understand this statement.
:So as long as Kevin continues to corrupt the tastes of my culture with thoughtless crap, I'll continue to spread bad word of mouth.
Coming here wasn't the best choice for that. Most of us have thought for ourselves and made up our own minds. Since you present no facts to back up your claims, we have no reason to reevaluate.
:And it's working... he hasn't had a successful film since Chasing Amy.
Define successful. I think if people like a movie, it's successful. If it makes more than it took to create, it's successful. Hell, anyone who manages to make a film is successful in a way. So, I'd say you're wrong about this. Granted, none of the films has made $100 million, but then, if a film doesn't cater to the lowest common denominator (read: sex, violence, cliche, or adrenaline), it likely never will. and besides, do you honestly think you half thought out opinions and bad mouthing have actually hurt the revenues on these films nationwide? Now whose being delusional?
Try again, and back up your claims with references to facts, perhaps with a link to a reputable source. And don't just post opinions, I don't want to read them. At least, don't respond to this post with just an opinion. If you want a real debate, I'd be happy to try to oblige. Otherwise, my part in this thread ends here.
That is all.