Posted by Seamus at ascend2-30.vf.pond.com on November 16, 1999 at 20:54:58:
In Reply to: "Dogma" - racism, feminism, violence, & religion posted by Zos on November 16, 1999 at 18:18:04:
: Did anyone else perceive strong messages about racism, and to a
: lesser extent, feminism, violence, and religion in this movie? The
: majority of it seemed to be about the current emasculation of the white
: man due to Christianity and the perpetuation of racists attitudes.
: Namely the stereotypes that black men are somehow more manly than white
: men and that they have bigger penises. Many many jokes were made to
: this effect which went well beyond the realm of bad taste. There is
: even a scene where fellatio between Bethany (Linda Fiorentino) and the
: 13th apostle (Chris Rock) is implied. It is definitely significant that
: the angels are without sexual organs or anuses. They are white men
: castrated by the religion of Christianity, unable to properly express
: either hetero or even homosexuality. Jay and Silent Bob are seen to
: make a ploy to become part of the black gang after the striper scene,
: which by the way also exemplified a way too prevalent theme in
: pornography resultant of racist attitudes. Jay and Silent Bob represent
: the young white men of today, it's idol rockstar/rappers, Korn, Limp
: Bizkit, and a host of other knock-offs, adorned in their Addidas
: uniforms, sporting their Christian crucifixes, striving to be
: assimilated into the particular cult of black ethnicity typified by most
: rappers with their endless macho posturing, espousement of drug
: addiction and violence, and of course the inherent racist attitudes
: which must keep such a cult alive. In their self-loathing they try to
: become more "black" by weak-minded conformity and the most abject
: hypocrisy.
: When Bartleby (Ben Affleck) is done with his killing spree at the
: very end, he makes a comment about what a great release it was after
: thousands of years of repression, and "if they only let us masturbate."
: This is a very poignant comment upon how things like WWF and socially
: glorified violence are merely a substitute for eroticism, providing a
: cheap sexual thrill, and often an outlet for homosexual urges. It was
: interesting how very few, if any people in the movie theater laughed at
: that, but they sure thought all those black men with big penises jokes
: were hilarious. Fucking idiots.
: Almost all of the fools I've seen review it have said it didn't
: criticize the Catholic Church. They are blind. This film was very
: Satanic and had many anti Christian messages to it. The beginning
: dialogue between Loki (Matt Damon) and the nun was quite good. I think
: that it is very probable that Kevin Smith was familiar with the works of
: Anton LaVey when he wrote this movie. Satan fails to succeed in his
: rebellion because he is tied to God and Christian dogma. The Satanism
: of LaVey does succeed because the idea of God is done away with
: completely, moreover Satan is not actually believed in, but used as a
: symbol of the individual as opposed to the mass or as representative of
: the balancing force in nature. Much of the terminology used, the names
: of the angels especially, showed a significant knowledge of Kabbalistic,
: mythological, and occult ideas.
: There is also a feminist message as far as all the comments of Jay and Silent Bob are concerned. I think this really came out in the end
: with the appearance of Alanis as the female God and the emphasis upon
: virgin birth. This I feel was intended to bring to mind the past pagan
: age wherein the female was exalted because of the mystery surrounding
: childbirth when the role of the man in the process was not known. Jay's
: pussy licking joke at the end was typical of the type of stereotyping of
: all women as having lesbian tendencies, women are just very different
: emotionally as well as in other ways and they are not all lesbians.
: Am I close on any of this Kevin?
: - Matt