Posted by Bethany27 at 154.11.255.98 on December 01, 1999 at 15:50:58:
In Reply to: Bethany27's all like Burt Reynolds and shit... posted by Placenta Jones on December 01, 1999 at 12:15:11:
: And I mean that as the highest form of flattery!
Thank you! Sweet. I've ordered the FINAL script but I think it will take a few days to arrive so we'll have to rely on the old one for reference until then! (So sorry, Silent Slob... hope this doesn't put you out too much!)
: In past threads, a lot of people theorized that this was because Bartleby and Loki weren't really sorry for what they had done and they wanted a way back into heaven WITHOUT having to be penitent. One problem with this theory was that there's not a lot of dialogue in the flick to back that up.
But do you think that's true? I mean, you're right... they don't actually SAY that... but I think it's generally hinted at that they want to go back to Heaven and that they don't feel that what they did was wrong. I'm going to read the final draft thoroughly and see if I see any examples of this!
:The closest thing I can thing of is one of Bartleby's lines that Bethany27 pointed out: The last bit ("moreso than the sacrament of penance could ever offer") I think is key. Bartelby seems intrigued by the fact that plenary indulgence is a much more powerful means of soul-purifying than the act of penance. Why would he care about that? I can think of 2 possible reasons.
I think you have a good point... they did make an issue out of saying that it was a bigger tool of forgiveness than penance. Maybe that's it.
KEVIN WHERE ARE YOU?!!!!!
: #1. They really wanted to get back into Heaven without asking for forgiveness and they believed that plenary indulgance was SO powerful that it could absolve them without them actually being sorry.
: OR
: #2. They were so terrified of God's wrath and the possibility of being sent to Hell, they never wanted to become human and ask for forgiveness because they thought it wouldn't be enough. They thought that even after they went through the sacrament of penance that God still could decide to block their entrance into Heaven. SO, once they found out about plenary indulgance, Bartelby and Loki assumed that "Hey, this is like penance times 1000" and that such an extreme act of absolution could not be rejected by the powers that be.
Could be!!! Both are totally possible. I have no idea which is right! Just a hunch that they weren't sorry. They never seemed sorry or implied that they'd take back their decision if they could... although they did go on a killing spree to get back into God's good graces... maybe that's the key to proving that they WERE sorry. They were willing to go back (Loki particularly) and do the deeds of God that they refused to do years ago. Hmmmmm!
Ok, I'm going to get fired soon... you guys (with a few notable exceptions!) are a very interesting distraction!
xo Bethany