Posted by Darth Dobbin at 208-58-251-227.s227.tnt2.nwhv.ct.dialup.rcn.com on June 19, 2000 at 10:07:04:
In Reply to: Re: **REPOST**:Mr. Toad's Ride's "SECRET" origin. posted by Pickle on June 19, 2000 at 08:20:28:
: I thought that Kevin's references where "pop" references. Meaning that they are imbedded in todays culture through many means and have become standard place, making them enjoyable to a vast audience.
"Pop" does not mean illiterate. (BYW- It might be a simple typo on your paart, & I know it is petty of me to do so, but I feel the need to point out that it is "were," not "where." Like GI JOE says, now you know. And knowing is half the battle.)
: Apparently it isn't, as I have never read it.
Look, you may not have **read** it, but just because you may not have read Watership Down, or Lord of the Flies, or Animal Farm or whatever does not mean that you should never have **heard** of them.
Now that you mention it I have heard of aformentioned characters thanks to the cartoon however. (said cartoons' character development sucked so naturally I dismissed it from memory as a poorly retould fable.)
Yeah. I always judge literature by how good or poor of a cartoon it translates into. And I am quick to "dismiss" work based on this criterion as well. Like Ghraham Chapman said to the Black Knight in HOLY GRAIL: "You make me sad."
:
: Hmmm, A man who crys for those who are not of his background and has a love of fairy tales.... you must be English?
No. You can be from America and have read books. It's a classic, fer chrissakes. All I'm saying is that ONLY being aware of comic books, cartoons, and "pop" culture is like living off a diet of Cheetos and french fries. Don't get me wrong- There is plenty of room in my world for Cheetos and french fries, friend. Probably too much room. But every now and again, it's nice to have a civilized meal, with the proper utensils and all, if I may carry the analogy to its extreme.
I **do** find it horribly upsetting that you assume anyone who knows about "fairy tales" or literature or any such thing to be British. Ours is the country of Walt Whitman, of Mark Twain, of Faulkner, as well as the nation of Kirby and Lee. I'm just saying that in order to apreciate any one of these, you don't have to abandon the others.
I think this whole "debate" speaks to a larger issue with writers like Kevin, or Niel Gaimen, or any other "post modern" talented writer who pays "homage" to other works, or echoes themes of "classical" nature.. The "meta" reference is made with an assumption of shared knowledge. When folks only come in at their particular link in the chain, bizarre confusion arises.
I will grant you that I may just be engaged in a bout of Asshole-ery. Maybe the strength of such works are that they can exist, and be enjoyed, on a bunch of levels; and I'm just railing about some piece of writing that **was** important and magical to me as a kid, assuming it should be so for everyone else.
Probably not, though.
Anyway, be well, and it might not hurt you to pick up a copy of the book. It really is wonderful, even now.