Can of worms

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: There's probably going to be some repeats of what Dobbon said in here, but bear with me. : >I'm sorry that you've gone through...well, what you've gone through, but everything you have said proves my point. >Girls would rather date their high school sweetheart through college, have kids with him, marry him, then divorce him >before they reach 30, than take a chance on that friend that was always there for them when they needed him, but >never gave a second thought of as a boyfriend. : Ah, but that happened BEFORE me. He had those kids before I ever even met him (well, if you don't count a couple of times I saw him at Rocky Horror when we was 16, anyway.) So, did he and his ex get together the way you describe, the high school sweetheart and all that? Yup, they did. Of course, after 3 years of having to deal with her whenever we went to pick up the kids, I can say with a fair degree of certainty that she was also a spoiled moron who was going after the opposite of what she'd grown up with. She lived in a lovely house: swimming pools, tennis courts, the whole thing. He was, and continues to this day to be, a blue-collar, white trash, tough guy. So, she was rebelling, I guess, and in the end it didn't work out. I, on the other hand, met him after I came home from college. I saw this grungy guy who had a pretty good brain in there, and was charmng as all hell, but who worked in a steel factory. The fact that he was a moody, manic depressive bastard who couldn't be faithful if you put a leash on his dick... that didn't come out until well after I was completely and totally head over heels for him. So I got duped. That's my story, and no, I didn't ever do the high school sweetheart bullshit. : As for the friend that was always there... Dobbin's on the ball with this. I can't speak for other women, but when I've got a friend that good, I don't want to screw things up by adding a relationship into the mix. It always makes the friendship more awkward, and I HATE it when that happens. If you want to be a friend, be a friend. If you want to be more than that, make that clear from the outset. Doesn't mean you can't be nice, or a listener, or any of the things that you do in friend capacity; it just doesn't leave room for the just-a-friend syndrome. : >And you say that a guy claiming to be a "nice guy" is lying, well I'm sorry you've been duped into thinking that. In my >view, there are three kinds of guys who claim to be nice guys. : I didn't say they were lying. I didn't explain very well, so we'll try again; NOONE's all nice. That's what I don't buy. I'm a "nice girl," who suffers from much of the same type of problems as the "always comes in last" nice guy, and as Brodie says, "We smell our own." I'm a nice girl, but I'd be full of shit if I said I was ALWAYS nice. So are you. So's almost anyone who tries to get away with saying that. : That's what I meant by that. : >Nice Guy #2: Has never had a girlfriend, so, for the first two or three, he may be a bit clingy. It will be a hard lesson, >but if you tell him straight forward that he's clingy, dump him, and don't give him a second chance, it will make him all >that better for the next girl. : Dated him. Did exactly what you describe, and exactly what you describe happened. She was very happy with him, from what I understand. : >Nice Guy #3: That quiet guy in the corner cubicle or the back of your Geometry class or bagging groceries in the >lane next to you. Not much of a looker, but has a lot to offer. He's chivalric, sweet, smart, and a perfect gentleman. : Dated him, too. Of course, it took about a semester of actively pursuing him, from talking to him in class to showing up at his dorm room, to get there, but we DID finally get there. I'd like to point out that I'm shy as hell in my real-time persona, so pursuing ANYONE was a new one on me, but even though he was the quiet guy who never said much in class, I knew he was a great guy, smart, funny, good-looking... he was just shy. PAINFULLY shy. I thought I was shy, then I tried to drive the point through his skull that I was interested, and found out what shy really was. When I finally got him, he was chivalric, sweet, smart, and a perfect gentleman. Then the semester ended. He went to a foreign country for his major over the summer; I got 1 postcard, but had no way of writing to him. When we got back the next year, he had another girlfriend. Named Jill, amusingly enough. : >Only in rare cases do Nice Guys #2 and #3 find girls to take a chance on them (Dobbin being one of the lucky >ones), and #1 will succeed in getting into your pants. Then he'll break your heart and you'll come crying to one of the >real nice guys. Then, 5 or 10 years later, you'll find someone (or stay single) and give false hope to people like >myself. Cynical? Yeah. Accurate? Very. Bitter? More than you can imagine. : Right now, after my last experience, I don't trust anyone to be what they appear to be, nice or otherwise. My ex fucked me up so badly that I've been single for almost a year and a half; not because the opportunities weren't there, but because I couldn't trust enough to take them. And I know I'm not the only one out there with that problem. How long will it be before I venture out again? Don't know. Right now, I'm learning how to be a me that I like. So at least you can't accuse me of giving anyone false hope. : I, too, am cynical and bitter, but at least I've learned to have a sense of humor about it, and not let it visibly be my life. : >And, for the first couple posts, it worked. Then the truth came out. Nice guys really do finish last. And it's the belief >held up by all girls, and Dobbin, that keeps tripping us up and therefore never allowing us to get ahead of, at the very >least, the potheads/guitarists who are ugly and have no personality, yet somehow get the chicks... : So be yourself, plus learn a musical instrument and start smoking pot, if that's what you feel attracts women. In my experience, the only women interested in potheads are potheads. I should know. Nice guys don't finish last, people who sit there expecting true love to fall in their laps do. You've got to TRY. If you don't, you're always going to be the quiet guy in the cubicle, and then you're going to be the guy going ballistic with an AK-47 that everyone says, wow, we never saw it coming, he was such a quiet guy... If there's a girl in accounting that you're interested in, make a tentative gesture of interest. She may say she's not interested, but you won't be able to say you didn't try. : >Speak for yourself. I'm all about the Affleck booty... : I prefer my men with more meat, and less... forehead. ;-) : Jill

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