Posted by Chrees at 204.155.16.72 on June 19, 2000 at 18:57:27:
In Reply to: The meaning of free will & muses in "Dogma"? posted by Isis on June 19, 2000 at 18:36:13:
: He describes free will as the ability to choose whether or not to acknowledge God's existence, and implies that the angels don't have this ability. Now, this seems to indicate that free will specifically refers to the ability to believe or disbelieve in God.
I think you were closer to the meaning of free will with your first comment...independently making decisions. His comments on whether or not mankind chooses to acknowledge God's existence is part of that free will, not the entire concept in and of itself.
: Also, I can't for the life of me remember -- been ages since I read the Old Testament and all my books are in storage -- didn't Lucifer get kicked out of heaven for protesting God's creation of beings with free will?
There are several takes on Lucifer's fall. The OT comments more on his vanity and his tempting of Adam and Eve. You're probably familiar with Milton's war in Heaven that Lucifer leads, pissed because he wanted to be God's favorite. Which obviously couldn't happen with Jesus, God's son.
One interesting thought (to me, anyway) is the usual contrast made between God in the Old and New Testaments--a wrathful god vs. a benevolent god. Obviously, a skee-ball playing God fits in with a NT framework much better. But as was commented within the movie, Bartleby's anger made him sound like Lucifer, still stuck within an OT framework.
: don't hurt me, at least.
Wouldn't dream of it. My explanations are rather hasty and cutting corners, but hopefully the gist it correct and likewise doesn't spawn any pain :-) Just rambling during the late afternoon at work...